Ezra McCarthy
Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Lawn Care Blueprint, where we dive into stories, strategies, and successes of those who are shaping the green industry. Today we have a special guest with me—Taylor Johnson, I believe it is. He’s been growing his landscape business over the past five years, the owner-operator of Big Red Outdoor up in chilly Vermont. So Taylor, thanks for joining us. And did I say that last name right?
Taylor Josephson
It’s Josephson. But that’s okay.
Ezra McCarthy
Josephson, okay.
So you launched Big Red Outdoor—which, by the way, I love the name—Big Red Outdoor Services in 2020. Yep, actually right before COVID, it sounds like. What inspired you to start your business? And then, starting at such a crazy time, how did that all work out?
Taylor Josephson
Yeah, so I’d been working at a car dealership, really trying to find a way—a happy medium. I was showing up for work at 6:30 in the morning and wasn’t leaving the dealership until seven o’clock at night. I was in service. We didn’t leave until the cars were done.
I wasn’t a tech—I was a service advisor. So my main goal was selling services for those techs and keeping things moving. And then in January, I told my wife, I said, I’ve got to do something else. I was working…
My direct manager was great. We’d bust each other’s chops all the time. She’s great—I still talk to her now, even though I haven’t worked there in four or five years. But her manager, the one above her, was one of those people in a position where he didn’t really understand everything—he was kind of outside of the service side. And I was just very frustrated with the direction a lot of things were going.
So I told my wife, I’ve got to do something different. And back in high school, I was that kid staring out the window, watching the maintenance guys mow the grass, thinking, hey, it would be cool to work outside—just kind of do my own thing and be in the fresh air and stuff.
So I told her, we got our tax returns back—I think it was February—and I said, let me take this, go down to the dealership, and buy a mower. I said, let me use our tax money. I’ll replace it within a year. My goal is six months, but a year at the latest, and we’ll go from there.
And my wife—she’s been very supportive of me in a lot of things I’ve done over the years—she said, you know what? Go for it. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. It is what it is.
So I went down and bought it. I think I had a 48-inch Exmark walk-behind they had used. Had no idea how to run it with the pistol grips and stuff. That was definitely a challenge to figure out.
I think I put it on the trailer, and then I got a phone call from a small HOA—actually in the area I live in now. They said, hey, we’re looking for a lawn care guy. What do you think?
I said, sure—I’m just doing this part-time, but you guys are where it’s at.
Ezra McCarthy
Yeah—pause you there. How did they hear about you when you had just gotten your mower?
Taylor Josephson
The first thing I did—even before I had the mower—was get on Google and Facebook. The free things I could do with very little money going into it. I just started throwing stuff out there.
I also had a friend who lived up in this area too, so that may have had something to do with it. I think he ended up knowing somebody in that HOA development.
I had a little 5×8 trailer I bought used from a friend of mine, and I had a Jeep Cherokee at the time that I was towing it with—which is no way to carry mulch, really. I had two mowers and didn’t know what to do. Before I got on that zero-turn mower, I’d honestly never been on one before.
So I did all my research. I figured out the grass height that worked best for my area—stuff like that, like the right mowing height and what I should be doing. I’d mowed the grass growing up. My dad still gives me a hard time that I never wanted to mow the grass at our house—but now I have a lawn care business.
Ezra McCarthy
That’s really funny. I’m curious—your timing was literally a month or two before COVID. Was that good timing or was that terrible?
Taylor Josephson
Yeah, so that was January—I started the LLC. February, I bought the mower. I was pretty excited to do it on the side and on the weekends. At the time, it was just me and my wife.
I think it was March or April when everything really started to kick in and everyone’s like, hey, either you’re not essential or you’re not working. So the dealership kind of shut down. They kept a small number of techs in the shop—who could work on opposite sides of the building. I think they went from 26 techs down to six.
And for service advisors, it was just a manager and one other person. The rest of us—luckily the dealership was good to us—they put us on extended furlough. So we weren’t actually fired, but we could still ask the government for assistance to help pay our bills while we weren’t working.
For my business, that actually ended up working out pretty well. I had another friend I’d met through the fire service who was getting out of lawn care. He passed some of my info along to his old clients.
So right before I got laid off, I ended up buying a Tundra from the dealership—traded in my Jeep. Now I had a way to do mulch. All through April, I did mulch by myself. My wife would come out and help me since it was just the two of us, and neither of us were working.
That was nice because there was nobody on the road. I could pretty much do whatever I needed to do at that time. And it just kind of spiraled from there.
Ezra McCarthy
So what was the moment—obviously you were kind of furloughed there for a while—when you really just took it full time?
Taylor Josephson
Yeah, I did that as long as I could. The dealership was in contact with us—letting us know, “this is when we’re thinking we’ll bring people back.” Then word would change from higher up, and we’d get that updated info. So it stretched out a bit longer.
I think it was two or three months in total where I was just mowing one or two days a week. I probably could have done it all in one day, but I wasn’t trying to push too hard. I was taking my time, making sure I was doing things the way I was supposed to.
Ezra McCarthy
How is your approach to customer service? Obviously, you were in kind of a selling/customer service role. Do you feel like that helped you in the lawn care business? And have you used any tools or strategies for communicating with your customers now?
Taylor Josephson
Yeah, it’s funny—before I worked at the dealership, I was actually a correctional officer for the state of Vermont, working in the prison system. After a couple of years, that got rough mentally, so I took a step back and did something completely different—just because I liked cars. I thought, let’s give this a shot.
It’s funny, though—the prison actually taught you how to talk to people and get certain outcomes. I guess the best way to put it is, you learn how to offer two options—but both options lead to the outcome you want. So instead of asking a question, you frame it like, “You can do this or that”—but either way, it gets the result you need.
I took that and morphed it into the sales aspect with cars. Like, “You can do brakes now, or you can do brakes and rotors later because you waited too long.” I worked in that framework and brought a lot of that thinking into the lawn care side of things too. Like, “I can mow it now, or you can call me in a week after thinking about it—and I’ll have to charge you twice for the same thing.”
I really tried to take what I learned and apply it. I wasn’t a great salesperson at the dealership—I wasn’t the guy trying to sell an air filter to someone who just hadn’t had time to change their oil. Especially if I knew they could do it themselves. I didn’t waste time with that kind of stuff. I didn’t sell people things they didn’t need.
I just tried to be the responsible, reasonable person they could rely on. And I had quite a few customers who came to me specifically because they knew I wouldn’t sell them something they didn’t need.
Ezra McCarthy
So true. What have you found in your lawn care business—what role has technology played as you’ve grown? I’m actually really surprised. You mentioned you started with your Google Business Profile right from the beginning. How did you know to do that? Because even today, a lot of established businesses still aren’t using it.
Taylor Josephson
It’s funny—back then I had plenty of time. My wife is more of the computer person. If my laptop stops working, I pick it up, hand it to her, and say, “It’s broken. Fix it.”
Other than that, I could open it up and do my billing and stuff, but if it ran too slow, I’d just get too frustrated. I’ve got that old-school mentality—like, hit it and maybe it’ll work better. Obviously, that doesn’t work with technology.
So I really tried to work with my wife when I first started with Google. One thing too—when I started the business, it was actually called Big Red Lawns. About two and a half years in, I rebranded to Outdoor Services because I wanted to do more.
But up until this year, I didn’t have a Google listing for Big Red Outdoor Services because I just didn’t have the time to sit down and do it. I didn’t remember how, and every time I tried, something would go wrong. I’d get frustrated and just say, “I’ll deal with it later.”
Next thing you know, almost three years go by and I still hadn’t done it.
So this year, a friend of mine from the fire service down in Essex—he does sealcoating now—he introduced me to this young college kid who’s really into Google listings. I actually hired him on a monthly basis to manage mine. He’s helped me get reviews, updated all the pictures, and now I’m actually getting phone calls from Google. I can see the traffic to my website going up with the monthly reports.
I knew I wasn’t that person—I needed to find someone who was good at it. And being, for the most part, a solo operator, I don’t have the bandwidth to hire a full-time person for admin stuff like that.
Ezra McCarthy
I think a lot of people are missing that—realizing that so many are in the same boat. They’re busy, they’ve got things they’re good at, and they just neglect the rest. So finding someone who can help is huge.
You’d be surprised—I’ve seen multi-million dollar businesses doing a terrible job with it. No reviews, terrible ratings, terrible pictures. You’d think they were Chuck in the Truck instead of a great company.
And even as a small business, there’s no reason we can’t absolutely kill it on that front. And it’s free. You can’t use the excuse, “I can’t afford it.”
You can’t afford not to.
Taylor Josephson
Right, right—especially if it’s free. I mean, there’s no way around it. Like I said, I was always running off word of mouth. Everyone says, “I grow it off word of mouth.” Well, how big do you want to grow? How much do you really want to take in?
It’s not just about the jobs. I spent a couple of years just being busy, busy, busy. And then at the end of the year, I’d do my taxes and realize—I didn’t make anything. I’m thinking, what is happening?
Just to throw out some numbers—two years ago, my gross was $180,000. I had two kids part-time helping out here and there. I was splitting things up—going to do brush hogging, they were handling mowing and stuff like that.
And I think at the end of the year, I brought in $35,000. I was like, what am I doing? This is a total crash. I mean, my bills were paid, I was afloat—but what am I doing?
Then this last year, I made $160,000 in revenue. Took my family to Disney in November for a much-needed vacation. I’ve got two young kids. And my tax return said I made $80,000.
Ezra McCarthy
Hone in on that for a second. What was the problem? I mean, $35,000 in a year—you might as well have been working at McDonald’s. You were obviously working really hard. Was it expenses that were eating your lunch—pardon the pun? It doesn’t sound like it was labor. What was destroying your profit there?
Taylor Josephson
You know, the biggest thing in the industry—it’s not knowing your numbers. I guess the best way to put it is—I’m a grunt. I’m the guy who’ll pick things up and put them down. You put numbers in front of me and I go cross-eyed. But I really needed to look at what I was doing.
And I think it took me longer than it should have. I should’ve sat down with someone who knew what they were doing. I will say, at one point I did have a business partner for a short time because I couldn’t find help. That didn’t work out, so we moved on.
And it’s funny you made the McDonald’s joke—because I was actually contracted to take care of seven McDonald’s locations in the area. The truck I’m sitting in right now has 106,000 miles on it. I bought it with 38,000 just a couple of years ago.
That’s where I was losing a lot of money—driving. I found out certain things just didn’t work for my business. The town I live in has about 5,000 people. I was servicing areas with 20,000 and more. I need to keep it in that tighter zone and not travel as much.
Ezra McCarthy
So did that involve dropping the McDonald’s?
Taylor Josephson
I did, yeah. That was a huge gut punch when you really think about it. It just didn’t fit with what I wanted the business to evolve into.
I look back at it every now and then—especially when money gets tight. You think, man, I wish I had that $10,000 to $15,000 coming in every month. I mean, that was a $100,000 contract a year—plowing, maintenance, everything. That’s a big gut punch when you’re trying to figure it all out.
So I did let them go. I still see the supervisors every now and then—when I stop in to use the restroom or grab lunch with the guys helping me with mulch. No hard feelings. But traveling that distance was wild for sure.
I mean, snowstorms for seven stores—you’re on the road a lot.
Ezra McCarthy
And this is so interesting—because so many people are all-in on commercial work. And for some businesses, in some places, it’s worth it. But realizing—just like you did—that where you were and where you were trying to go didn’t line up, and then having the courage to cut a $100,000 contract? That takes guts.
But now your profits are up. It sounds like your stress is down. And I’ve plowed before—when it’s two or three in the morning and the roads are terrible—it’s brutal. It’s one thing to drive around town. But it sounds like you had to drive a good distance. You don’t want to be out there in that.
Taylor Josephson
Yeah, I mean, I have a friend who plows up here in town—quote-unquote part-time—because he works for himself doing home inspections. But he says, “I don’t have more than a five-minute drive between one driveway or private road and the next—because I don’t make money with my plow in the air.”
Ezra McCarthy
And that’s the same for lawn care. So many people, when they’re getting started—they might hear it as a cliché—but getting that route density in, especially if you live in a rural area, is huge.
It’s easy to fall into that trap of going here and there. And before you know it, your gross revenue might look good—but if your bank account’s not growing, then it doesn’t matter.
Taylor Josephson
Absolutely. And that was my big thing. I think this winter, I really did a lot of—soul searching, I guess you could call it—trying to figure out exactly what I was trying to do. I’m not just trying to make the biggest amount of money. Because being busy doesn’t make you more money.
And I think that’s where a lot of people in this industry get caught up—the busier I am, the more money I make. But that’s not always true.
I’ve lost bids to a guy in town that a few of us landscapers all know by name. He underbids everybody. And then all of a sudden, you go on Facebook Marketplace and see—this loader’s for sale, that piece of equipment’s for sale—because he’s trying to make up for that lost revenue.
And it’s hard, because when you lose out on a job to someone like that, the customer later realizes he’s going to raise his prices when the contract ends. Now everyone else is more expensive, and you’re back to fighting over who’s going to be the cheapest.
And that doesn’t help anybody—especially when we’re all trying to grow the top end and build something sustainable for ourselves.
Ezra McCarthy
Now, you’ve mentioned your wife a couple of times. How have you kept a good work dynamic there, especially if she’s helped you in the business? Because that can go really well—or not so well—depending on the relationship.
Taylor Josephson
Yeah, I mean—it’s typically both. Anyone who says they run a business and have never had any issues with their spouse at any point, I think that’s far from the truth.
Honestly, we have our good days and we have our bad days. My wife works her own job. Luckily, her family is close by, so they help out with the kids—like getting them off the bus and stuff like that.
She’ll come out on the weekends now and then—probably anywhere from two to four times a year—usually to help me catch up on mulch in the spring, or help with weeding in August when it’s 105 degrees and I just don’t have the strength to keep pushing.
But she also remembers when I had that McDonald’s contract—I was backing the trailer into the driveway at 10:45 at night one time. I was mowing one of the McDonald’s with just the streetlights from the parking lot, trimming with a safety squint because I didn’t have clear glasses with me, and I couldn’t see anything—it was so dark.
Ezra McCarthy
I think we’ve all been there. That’s not a fun place to be. How do you personally manage the operational side as well as the administrative side? Do you use a CRM for your management, or how do you keep all that square?
Taylor Josephson
Yeah, so I’ve heard you mention Yardbook on a couple of your podcasts—whether it’s a love-hate relationship or not. I’m not a huge tech-savvy person, but I find it’s pretty easy for me.
I do wish they had a real interactive app instead of having to open Safari on my little phone and try to send out bills while I’m on-site—that part’s really frustrating. But it works for me right now.
I’ve looked into other options. I played around with Jobber a little bit, but personally, I just don’t see myself paying that at the moment. I’ve got to be really calculated with my moves going forward so I don’t end up back at that $35,000-a-year situation, with too much money going out the door.
So I try to handle both sides of the business. This year, I feel like I’ve gotten pretty decent—not great, but decent—at working in the business. I’ve got some kids that help out here and there. My customers usually seem happy with me, and if they’re not, I take care of it.
But I know I need to work on the business too. That might mean going down to my office, closing the door—even if the kids are knocking because they want to hang out—and taking 20 minutes just to sit down and look at what I’m doing.
A lot of the time, I’ll be up until two in the morning. I try to do that at least once a month, just to go through all my stuff and make sure I’m on the right path—rather than just saying, “I’ll look at it later,” and then never looking at it. I don’t want to bury myself again.
Ezra McCarthy
There might be someone listening who’s juggling that decision—whether to go full time, or maybe they’re just looking to start a lawn care business. Based on your experience, what advice would you give to someone in that position?
Taylor Josephson
Don’t overextend yourself—for one. That’s a huge thing I’d say. It’s really easy to go on Marketplace—I’m on it all the time, it’s a terrible habit—and say, “Oh, that’d be cool, I could use that.” There’s a difference between buying what you need and buying what you want or think you might use later.
A lot of people say, “Buy it and then make the work after.” And that’s true—to a point. But don’t overextend yourself too much.
I’d also say—make sure you have that kitty, that bank account on the backend, for those tough times. We had a pretty long winter here with those one-to-three-inch storms. We got a ton of snow in this area—more than people are used to. So make sure you’re prepared for the times when things get tight.
And my biggest thing is—just understand, this is not easy. I think a lot of people get into business thinking they’ll have more freedom or more time for themselves. I’m pretty sure that was half my thought when I started—spend more time with my family.
And then I’m mowing until nine or ten o’clock at night—because that’s just how it is. I mean, it rains…
I think this is weekend 26 in a row that we’ve had precipitation up here. I mean—it’s raining right now. It’s absolutely wild. I need a boat with pontoons. I’ve got to figure out how to strap those to my mowers next year if it keeps up.
There are going to be tough times, and you need to be prepared for them.
I’ve listened to a lot of business development content—podcasts, books. Everyone has a different perspective. You might have your favorites, but understand—everyone has those little golden nuggets you can take from them. Not everyone knows everything.
I’m also in the fire service, and I tell people all the time—if you ever think you know everything in the fire service, it’s time to leave before you get someone seriously hurt. Everything is changing every day.
Be ready to evolve. Be ready to educate yourself. Never stop educating yourself. And be able to shift when needed.
If you make a decision and it’s wrong—shift to something that makes sense. That’s part of why I rebranded. I’ve got towns near me with 20,000 people and big companies—it’s hard to compete as the little guy. But I do brush hogging, paver patios, retaining walls, and I’m starting to get into some light excavation. Not too much—but enough to shift gears toward something that works.
Ezra McCarthy
This is so good. And I actually do volunteer firefighting myself, and there is so much to learn. You get into some of those engines—one of them we have—it’s like a spaceship. So many knobs and levers.
I’ve only been doing it for not even a year, and I’m barely scratching the surface. It’s like you’re basically earning a PhD. We’re working through what’s called a 10.01. Not sure how it is in the U.S., but the textbook is monstrous. And that’s just the written side—then you’ve got the practical.
And in business, we may not have a book like that—but we’ve got to learn the equivalent. So always consistently reading books, listening to podcasts, talking to people, and learning from their experiences—it’s just really helpful.
So, looking ahead—Taylor, what would you say are some of your goals for the next five years for Big Red Outdoor Services?
Taylor Josephson
Boy, next five years… I’ll be honest, I’d like to have at least one crew out doing mowing. It’s hard to get out of mowing altogether—especially up here—because that’s how people recognize you for plowing.
They don’t always think of the excavation guy or the hardscape guy for snow plowing, because they don’t see those guys all the time. You might be on a job for a month or more. But the mowing guy? He’s in the neighborhood every week—that’s the guy they’re going to call when winter hits. So having at least one crew out mowing would be really good for me.
I really like the hardscaping side of things, too. A lot of that comes from the instant gratification when you finish a project. You get to be a little artistic—you can have a plan and say, “This is how we’re going to do it,” but then tweak things because you know it’ll look even better. And the price point and profit margin on those jobs are obviously much better.
As for excavation, I’d like to roll into that more as well. There’s more risk involved—bigger equipment, higher costs, permits—but I’ve been doing some work for a lady in town who has big plans for a road and seven houses. She’s told me she wants me to take it on.
And yeah, it’s just me right now—but I communicate well, and she’s been good to work with. If I can get into more of that kind of work, that would be phenomenal.
Ezra McCarthy
This has been really helpful, and hopefully the listeners have gotten a lot of value. If someone’s interested in learning more about you, Taylor, where’s the best place to find you?
Taylor Josephson
Yeah—just Google Big Red Outdoor Services. You’ll find us there. I’ve got a Google listing, and I’m on Instagram and Facebook as well under the same name—Big Red Outdoor Services. Always willing to help in any aspect. And apparently the fire side too—I’m actually heading to fire school next weekend to teach for the weekend. So anywhere folks want to reach out, I’m more than willing to help.
Ezra McCarthy
Taylor, it’s been a pleasure having you on the show. Your journey is no doubt inspiring to our audience. If you got value from this episode, be sure to hit the subscribe button, leave a rating and review—and we’ll catch you on the next one.
