Episode 15

Ezra McCarthy
Hello and welcome back to the Lawn Care Success Podcast. Today’s guest we have Sam Gemble who built a lawn and landscape company from his driveway into a true powerhouse of a brand doing over seven figures in just two years. Sam Gemble is the founder of Atlas Outdoor in the metropolis of Flint, Michigan. So here today he’s going to share his story of his struggles, his growth, his team building and how to lead like a CEO. Sam, good to have you this morning.

Sam Gembel
It is a truly true honor and privilege to be here. Ezra McCarthy, thank you for the invite and for the good warm welcome there.

Ezra McCarthy
Yeah, it’s always good to start. You want to just take us back. I’ve listened to your story on a couple of the podcasts, but there may be people listening who haven’t heard about where you started. Want to just take us back to the beginning and tell us a little bit about where and how you got started?

Sam Gembel
Yeah, just kind of give you the quick little two to three minute version. So as you alluded to, I’m originally from the Flint area. Atlas’s main headquarters is actually in Flint now. So born and raised in Flint, my mom was a CNA, a certified nursing assistant. My dad used to refer to her as a professional butt cleaner for old people. And my dad was kind of a jack of all trades, master of none, window cleaner. Would do whatever. We did kind of mow some lawns when I was a young teenager growing up. But never any bit of a life of abundance in the Gembel legacy there.

So growing up, I met my now wife as my high school sweetheart at Flint Central High School. We started playing house together, moved in very, very early, very young. I had a few jobs kind of leading up through 2001, but in 2001, I got a job through my best friend at the time, cutting grass for a local lawn care company. And there was a big difference from mowing lawns for my dad in these little college areas with a push mower and then moving into doing it commercially. But once I got the hang of running a zero-turn mower and all that, I absolutely loved it. I mean, being outside, that smell that you get from fresh cut grass, looking back and seeing your work—the instant gratification when a lawn got done.

Because I was so passionate about it and I’ve always had a knack for investing in people, I would work there for a couple of years. It didn’t take long before my boss at the time, it was a smaller company, started taking my crew members from me. I’d get a guy trained and my route’s getting bigger, and my boss would take them from me. I started to notice the trend, so I went to him and said, “Man, I’m expected to get 20-25 jobs a day done, but every time I get a guy trained up, you take him from me.” And he said something to me that made me realize I was a leader. He said, “Sam, you create leaders. You create more crew leaders.”

So I started getting pulled from day-to-day mowing into more of a training role. Around 2005, me and my wife moved from Flint to Davison, which is essentially where Atlas was born. We had a two-acre lot. I wasn’t going to let someone else cut my grass, so I bought a 60-inch zero-turn and started cutting. The guy behind me asked if I’d cut his. Then another. Before I knew it, I had a six-pack of lawns I’d cut every Saturday—not for the money, but because I loved it. I didn’t know I was laying the foundation for Atlas.

By 2007-2008, it started becoming more of a business. I had to buy a trailer and mow five lawns. I was still working as a production manager/foreman during the day and building Atlas in the evenings and weekends. Looking back, I was probably a crappy employee. I wasn’t trying to compete, I just loved cutting grass.

In 2010, my wife—a U of M grad with a degree in HR—had our daughter and really wanted to stay home. I figured if I picked up a few more lawns, did some landscape work on weekends, I could replace her salary. After a lot of prayer and decision-making, I gave up the safety net.

June 10, 2011, was the inception of Atlas Outdoor. That was the day I didn’t have a paycheck for the first time in 15 years. It was terrifying. I had a wife and a daughter at home. I had one employee already helping me on the side. Then two other acquaintances jumped in. So it was me and three guys.

There’s so much to unpack from June 10, 2011, on—but that’s the beginning of the story. We’ll cover the rest later.

Ezra McCarthy
So Sam, that’s so interesting because you literally started—I know you were doing a little on the side—but when you started full-time, you brought on two team members from the beginning.

Sam Gembel
Three actually, three from the beginning. Yep. And kind of my vision there was I had about three weeks’ worth of quote-unquote projects lined up, like cutting down some trees, tossing some mulch. And I knew I had enough mowing work for one full-time guy. So really we had three trucks—one for me to drive, one for one guy to drive cutting grass, and one little 3,500 dump truck that was for our one kind of “odd job crew,” we’ll call it, because they weren’t just mowing.

That’s why I called the company Atlas Outdoor—because I didn’t want to be put in a box that we were just a landscape company. And so yeah, it was myself and three people. And I knew then, okay, if he’s cutting the grass full-time and this crew is doing the landscaping or special projects, then I could do everything else—fill in on the lawn crew where I needed to and focus on trying to sell more work.

I had this dream, this vision—not because I had any sort of influence or visual example—but I just always thought how cool it would be if I could grow the business to have 15 employees and do a million dollars in revenue. That was the dream business for me. Like, I can make a decent living at that. It never was to become a true CEO and work on the business—it was just this dream I had. And you know, fast forward to the second year—essentially, we did that our second year in business.

So it’s like, wow. I mean, obviously God’s plans were way, way bigger than my plans. And He’s like, what else you got for me? I found that the more and more I trusted and leaned in and wasn’t afraid to do some very, very bold, scary things to most people—you know what? It always worked out. Looking at the journey in reverse and connecting the dots backwards, it all makes sense. But we have to live looking forward.

To the outside world, when they hear the story or see it going on in the moment, they’re like, there’s no way—he’s doing something special. There were all kinds of rumors made about me. Like, I’ve got ties to the mafia and they’re feeding me leads. So there was this joke we made that I was going to call myself The Sod Father. And now you can actually buy Sod Father shirts. I have one. I’d like to say I trademarked that 13 years ago, but I didn’t.

In that, looking at it now—looking backwards—and looking at the people that came into the journey, whether they stayed or left—it all makes sense. To me, anyway.

Ezra McCarthy
So when I hear that, two things come to mind. First, thinking that you kind of jumped in with both feet, not even checking for water—what was the stress like jumping in with three team members and not a big backlog? And it’s not like you had years of experience personally. So like, what was your wife telling you when you came in like that?

Sam Gembel
And it was the middle of the year. Who starts a true landscape company in the middle of the year? Honestly, I will credit the first few years of growth to fear. I always had this fear—and I think there’s a great leadership lesson in this for our listeners—that one day my team would show up for work and I wouldn’t have anything for them to do.

So I was obsessed with selling. It became relentless. There was no goal. No sales number I needed to hit. Honestly, during the first six to eight months of business, all I thought about was my wife and daughter at home. I’ve got to feed them. My wife doesn’t have an income anymore. That was my why then.

But the second you start to add employees to your business, your why, your mission, your purpose—it becomes much bigger than yourself. I was so worried that I wouldn’t be able to keep them busy. So sales were the least of our worries. I was relentless—building relationships, networking in the community, showing up in Facebook groups, closed local groups, wherever.

And it’s crazy to think—our payroll went from $2,500 a week. I remember when we got our first quote because we needed liability insurance, right? I remember freaking out when I got my first quote for the three trucks, my workers’ comp, all that. Because I was going to be a legitimate business. I wasn’t going to pay people under the table. That first quote was $358 a month. And I remember just losing it, thinking, “$358?! That’s insane!”

Now people hear me talk about having 110 team members, two locations, very large payrolls—and I guess you just kind of become numb to it. Somebody once said something to me that really stuck: “It’s only significant until you can have it.” And when I think about that—and the blessings in my life, my family, the schools my kids go to compared to how I was raised—yeah, that would definitely be considered significant.

But now I just don’t think about it anymore. That fear was a driver. It was an extrinsic motivator. I didn’t want to let my guys down. So I just put my head down and said, “Let’s go. We’ve got jobs to do.”

Ezra McCarthy
Say someone’s listening in and they’re maybe at that stage where they’ve got a couple of team members. And you know, I’m really specific about that word because I hate the word “employee.” I think words matter. How we treat our team members, what we call them, the verbiage we use—not to get fluffy, but I think it really matters. If someone’s out there, they’ve got a couple of team members and they’re looking to grow, I think fear is something that does motivate a lot of people. You mentioned your motivation kind of shifted. Say they’re in that mindset—trying to grow but perhaps afraid—what would you tell them?

Sam Gembel
You know, the first thing I’d say is: never compare your why to somebody else’s why. Not everybody is equipped to lead at an enterprise level. I mean, you take a person who’s been called to lead 100 people—give him two, and he’ll multiply that two into 100. But you give someone 100 who can’t even lead themselves? Give them a couple years, and those 100 will be gone.

If I’m talking to someone who just wants to get to that next level, the first question I always ask is, “What does growth mean to you?” That’s always what I ask in the coaching and mentorship world. Because a lot of people say, “I want to grow,” but they haven’t defined it. And that’s dangerous—especially if you’re doing it for the wrong reasons.

There are two good reasons to grow: one, financial stability. And two, freedom. When I tell someone we have 110 team members, they look at me like I’ve got five heads. They say, “Man, I do not want those problems.” And I get that. They say, “Stay small, keep it all.” But here’s the flip side: if we have three or five people call off sick, we still keep going. If I want to take my family on a recharge vacation, the business keeps growing in my absence.

Now if you’re the “stay small” guy and you’ve got two or three team members, I ask: what if something happens to you? What if you break your leg or arm? I’ve been at conferences where someone shows up in a sling and I’ll say, “Man, what happened?” And they’ll tell me—and you realize: for a lot of business owners, delegation only comes when they’re forcedto learn it due to a life event.

I’d rather build something that continues on even if something happens to me. Sure, maybe sales dip a little, maybe a few team members say, “It’s not the same without Sam”—but I’ve built something that can go on without me.

So if you’re that guy with two or three team members, start by asking yourself: why do I want to grow? What’s the goal?

Second, realize that your business has to be bigger than you. Most entrepreneurs I meet at that two, three, maybe six-person level—they haven’t let go. It’s still about them. And any leadership principle will tell you: the average leader can only effectively lead six to ten people.

So how do you get to 100? I only directly manage two people. From there, it cascades. That principle works. Most business owners hit that pain line around $750K in revenue and under because they haven’t learned how to lead leaders. That’s the missing link—multiplying your leadership so others can lead teams.

If you can just figure out how to multiply your leadership—even just enough to lead 10 people—you can build a great business. Maybe that’s $1.2M to $2M in revenue. But it starts with letting go. You’ve got to make your business bigger than yourself.

Ezra McCarthy
That is so good, Sam. Now, you grew very quickly, even in your first two years in business. What would you say were some—obviously you mentioned in the beginning you were just trying to get work, you were hustling—but what were some key moves or habits that really led to that growth? Maybe tell everyone who doesn’t know your story… Because it sounds like in the beginning, it was a little wild. What enabled you to grow so fast, and what are some lessons you learned during those crazy times?

Sam Gembel
My only two focuses were sales and recruiting. In business, you can break it down into a hundred different things, but to operate a business, you’ve got four buckets. You’ve got your sales bucket—and you can put marketing and other things in that. Then you’ve got your operations bucket—you’ve got to sell it, and once it’s sold, the work has to get done. That’s operations.

Then there’s your admin and finance bucket. You’ve got to collect the money, pay your bills, pay your team. And then finally, recruiting. You’ve got to be able to get people. A lot of things fall into those four buckets, but it feeds into my point—my sole focus during those first five to seven years of growth, which for those who don’t know, we hit five million in revenue in five years—my energy was all on selling and recruiting good people. There was minimal focus on operations, and minimal focus on admin and finance.

Looking back, I get asked a lot, “Sam, if you had to do it again, would you?” And everyone always says, “You’re darn right I would.” I actually wouldn’t. Because it took so many years to quote-unquote pay for my past sins. We made so many mistakes. When you’re in full-on growth mode, we weren’t job costing. We were doing all this work, and when we finally turned the scoreboard on and started using a CRM, we realized 80% of our profits came from only 20% of our customers.

Thankfully, we made it through. But most people would have imploded with that pace of growth. I don’t say that to sound like one of those wild-success entrepreneurs who just built this dream thing. It didn’t make sense to me either. I hired my first business coach in 2018 because we were just bleeding. On the surface, it looked like we had all these amazing things going on, but inside, we were maybe two to three days out on finances.

We’d have $100,000 payrolls and literally, sometimes, we’d get the money to make payroll that day. I can say wholeheartedly, we’ve never had to tell our team to hold their paychecks—we’ve gotten pretty dang close, my brother—but never once did we have to delay payroll. And when I think about giving glory to God, it’s that right there. The more I trusted, the more I realized I wasn’t stewarding my business correctly, everything started to change. That’s a whole other episode we could dive into.

But I was so focused on sales and finding good people, we completely lacked on admin, finance, and operations. When we were growing fast, people wanted to be a part of it. So the recruiting was almost easy—until it wasn’t. There’s so much to unpack, but on the sales side, I was so methodical with my time. I’d say, “I’m going to hit these 10 businesses today. I’m going to drop lunch off, meet the property managers.”

And people really proved that our area—the greater Flint area—was lacking a credible, white-glove lawn and landscape service. We were coming right out of that 2008-2009 time, and here we were: branded trucks, positive reputation, visible on Facebook. It steamrolled into great organic growth—until it didn’t.

It was the same with recruiting. People want to be part of the hot thing. We were that company in town you couldn’t drive through without seeing an Atlas truck—Grand Blanc, Fenton, all the surrounding towns. We’d post a help wanted ad and get 20–30 applications.

But we built this flawed machine. As fast as we could hire, we were losing people. My leaders were so used to the turnover that they wouldn’t even program someone’s number into their phone for 30 days to see if they were going to make it.

And it’s funny now because I’m the culture guy, right? I know what it’s like to be on the other side of that. And there are stories I could share about when we finally made that switch. A lot of it happened when I brought in our first business coach. He was a true pro—probably couldn’t afford him, but I knew we needed help. When he came in, he said something I’ll never forget.

He said, “Normally when I go into companies, the team is standoffish. They’re like, ‘Why is this guy here?’ But your team? They were like, ‘Please help us.’” He said it showed how much they believed in me, and they believed a breakthrough was coming.

He told me, “There’s going to be a day when you’re telling your story on stages, on podcasts, sharing how you went from this growth-at-all-costs machine to pumping the brakes and rebuilding the foundation.”

From 2017 to 2020—those were our darkest years. Then the pandemic hit. And Michigan got hit hard. But weirdly, it felt like a turning point. It exposed toxic people who were only with us to collect a paycheck. You could make $1,000 a week on unemployment, or go work for a food delivery company as a 1099.

Opening day of 2020—we had seven crew leaders quit. All on the same day. We had grass eight to ten inches tall, a four-month backlog of landscapes, and seven crew leaders walked out. It was the worst. Growing to $5 million in five years? That felt easy compared to that.

Ezra McCarthy
Can I pause you there? Did they resign because they wanted the unemployment?

Sam Gembel
Yeah.
100%, 100%. They took the thousand bucks a week. So really, when I look at that—because obviously some people know our story—we’re really big on our end-of-year awards and we’ve got team members who’ve been with us now for 13 of our 14 years.

And when I look back on those years—2020 in particular—we had this group of people where some fell off. But the ones that came on during the pandemic, they were being poured into. Remember I was convinced that our industry was just a high-turnover industry? But it was like, the ones who were rooted, who believed in me and where we were going—they began manifesting that belief into the new hires that came on during the pandemic.

They say if your business makes it five years, it’s a success. Well, at five years, I felt like we still had no idea who we wanted to be when we grew up. But at ten years—which put us around 2020 or 2021—that was our breakthrough moment. That was when we really identified the right customers, we did all the price increases we needed to, because everything was going up, and it really revealed the team members that had Atlas’s core values tattooed on their heart—and the customers who truly believed in what we were building.

We went through this crazy growth, then leveled out for a few years, but since 2021, it’s been an unbelievable trend.

Ezra McCarthy
This is fascinating. One thing I want to dive into here—really for those listening who are at the $100K to $500K mark, maybe a bit past that—is this mindset that I think you’ve escaped. I’d love for you to comment on this: the mindset of “no one can do it like I can.” It seems like from the beginning, you’ve done a good job of not falling into that trap.

So if someone’s out there, and they hear all this talk about team members and culture, but they’re worried—like, “no one can do the work like I can”—how would you talk to someone who’s struggling with that?

Sam Gembel
There’s so much to unpack there. I’ll say this: the people who think nobody can do it like they can—there are different levels to that, right? I found myself guilty of saying, “Nobody can lead the business like I can.” I never had a problem delegating the day-to-day work.

We used to have this unwritten prerequisite that, to be on our team, you had to be mechanically inclined. The reason? We didn’t have a mechanic. So if you broke something, you had to fix it. We’d interview someone and ask, “How are you at sharpening blades?” And if they said, “I can do that in my sleep,” great—because we didn’t have a shop guy.

Now, the tough part is this: usually, the thing that brought you to the dance is the hardest thing to let go of. For me, that was cutting grass. I loved cutting grass. That’s why the business started. But I remember two to three months after we went all-in, it was around August or September, I was out on a job. I wasn’t pulling a mower anymore, just meeting crews on-site.

I shut off my mower and grabbed my phone—13 missed calls. And I had this moment: how many of those calls were from someone who wanted to work for us? Or from a potential client ready to hire us? Now I had to call them all back. And I remember thinking, “What am I doing?”

It’s funny because now I’m so big on valuing my time. But even back then, 13–14 years ago, I was analyzing it. I knew I could hire someone to cut grass. Back then, you could get a cutter for $12/hour. If I’m out here for 10 hours, that’s $120. So I’m valuing my time at $120 a day, but I want to grow a business?

That was the hardest thing to give up—not because I couldn’t find someone, but because I just loved it. But it was also the lowest-revenue-generating task in our business. I couldn’t afford to do production and sell and lead.

So you’ve got to decide: what are the things that pay you more money in less time? Because you don’t have time to do both. That’s the whole working in your business vs. working on your business. And there’s a period where you’re doing both. But it’s like you’re running two businesses—the one you have and the one you want.

And it sucks, man. But every day, if you can move just 1% away from the business you have and toward the business you want—if you stay relentless about that—eventually, you’ll get there.

Most people, the very thing they know they should give up, they won’t. They’re just too passionate. “Nobody can ever cut like I do.” Let me tell you a story about that.

One of my first residential mowing customers—I loved mowing her lawn. The stripes just popped when I was done. It was the one I loved to post on Facebook. Me and my one mowing guy—I’d do the front yard, he’d do the back. I get done, put the mower away, grab my phone to snap some photos. She comes outside, and I’m thinking, “Here comes a compliment!”

Instead, she goes, “How come when you mow it like that, it looks like the grass is just pushed over?”

And that took the wind right out of my sails. Because I realized: most homeowners don’t care about stripes. They care about edging. They care about the weeds in the cracks. They don’t care about those perfect lines. We care. We do it to impress the other lawn care guys.

And I think that was God using that moment to say, “Sam, I need you to think bigger than just that 60-inch zero-turn lawn mower.”

Ezra McCarthy
That is so good. Now I’m going to transition a little bit. I remember I was just listening to one of your recent podcasts, and you shared on there publicly how you’d had a client recently that hadn’t paid on a large project—and you publicly said it was over a hundred thousand dollars. Now, many businesses probably won’t—and hopefully won’t—have that kind of accounts receivable. But you’ve been in many different places in your business.

Perhaps someone’s struggling with a setback. What advice would you give someone? Hopefully not facing that kind of setback, but maybe they are.

Sam Gembel
Yeah. Well, that particular one—this person took advantage of us. The process for the project was not followed by my team member, and the client was a professional hustler. They got one over on us. And we’re in the middle of a lawsuit right now—it’s crazy. But in 14 years of doing projects, that was the first time something like that ever happened.

So rather than talking about putting your armor on for when that day comes, I think the real value is in making sure it doesn’t get to that point in the first place. I could talk forever about “cash is king” and having money in the bank, but really, it never should have gotten there.

So the two main takeaways I’d offer are this:

1. Have a Solid Draw Process
   If you’re doing projects, make sure you have a draw schedule that protects you. Get money before the job starts. Get more on the day the job starts. And continue to collect as the job progresses. By the end of that project, the client should neverowe you more than your profit. That way, even if they decide to ghost you or screw you over, at least your labor, materials, and overhead are paid for. You just lose the profit—not the entire project investment.
2. Don’t Overload Your Risk With a Single Client or Job
   I’m a firm believer that no single project—or client—should make up more than 20% of your revenue. For the sake of easy math, say you’re a $1 million company. You shouldn’t be doing $200,000 projects. It’s too risky. Something goes wrong—it could sink your business.

Same goes for maintenance clients. If one client makes up 25% or more of your recurring work and you lose them? That’s not just a financial hit—it can shake your culture. Your team will feel it. They’ll start questioning: Did we mess up? Did they leave because of us?

So if you’re a $500,000 company, you really shouldn’t be doing projects larger than $75K to $100K. Even the profit from that size of project—if it goes sideways—can cause real damage. Protect yourself with solid processes, and be methodical about what scale your business can realistically absorb.

Ezra McCarthy
That’s so good. Now I’m just curious—how do you deal with that internally? Share as much as you’re willing to. The process wasn’t quite right… So how do you approach that with your team member? Would someone lose their job? Was it your fault for not having the right system in place? Would you refine the checklist? Walk us through that process.

Sam Gembel
Mmm. That’s a great question. And it’s been a difficult one, because honestly, I think everything rises and falls on us as leaders. So looking back, I’ll take the blame. I should’ve said, “Hey, why are we not collecting our draws?”

I didn’t hold my team member accountable. So yeah, he didn’t follow the process, but at the same time, I didn’t hold him accountable either. And he’s done a lot of amazing, amazing things. Had he been half-bought-in or not good at a lot of things, this probably would’ve been the straw that broke the camel’s back.

But that’s it—I’m a huge advocate for accountability. And it was difficult, because the rest of the team was even looking at me like, “What’s Sam going to do?” That’s a lot of pressure. And it’s one of those moments that can erode a leader’s credibility. Because now, if someone else does the same thing, what am I going to say? “Well, you let the other guy get away with it.”

So honestly, it made me really have to step up and monitor that stuff more closely. And when all of this was going down, I knew it was happening. I should’ve spoken up and said, “Why is this guy not paying? What’s going on?”

If the process had been followed correctly, we should’ve said, “We’re shutting down until we get caught up here.” That probably would’ve saved a lot of time, stress, and money. It’s been a mess. Like I said—it’s still going on.

That’s a great question. We could do a whole episode on accountability. But we’ll stop it at that.

Ezra McCarthy
No, that’s good. Now, you mentioned earlier that a coach was a big part of what helped turn your business around. Now you yourself are a coach—you help business owners, speak on stages, and do your best to help people grow. How has mentorship and getting coaching—whether in business or personally—affected your own journey?

Sam Gembel
Yeah, that’s a great point. I know the power of it. Looking back now, it’s so rewarding for me to help the next person come up. And I think it only really works when the leader or coach is so invested in their own growth that it’s like—if you don’t pour out, you’ll explode.

I’m such an advocate for personal growth and development—just wanting to be better today than I was yesterday. The more time I spend in my business, the more I find myself ruffling feathers—with love—but it’s because not everyone wants to be where I’m at. And that’s okay.

Actually, my coach was the one who told me—like I mentioned earlier in this episode—“Never compare your why to someone else’s why.” And that came out of a really frustrating situation. Here’s the quick version of it…

We used to have a weekly leadership team meeting. We were going through a book study, setting goals—all the things. And one day, we got into a meeting, and I was already frustrated about something else going on. Everyone’s like, “We could’ve picked a better book,” and nobody had read their chapter. Man, I was pissed.

I felt like all the energy I was putting into developing my leaders—I just wasn’t getting any return on that energy. So I literally walked out of the room. Everyone was stunned. There were probably 12 or 13 people in there—because we’ve got managers for everything—and I just walked out.

Let some time pass, then I went into my calendar and canceled the leadership meeting. I deleted it. Then I sent out an email:

“I’m not doing away with the meetings, but I’m restarting them. And here’s what’s expected. We’re going to do book studies, set goals, talk vision, talk culture, talk about how we can get better. And if you don’t want to be part of that, don’t feel obligated to be there. But if you do want to be a part of that, I’m honored—and I’ll send you a calendar invite.”

Four people responded and said, “Put me in.” Twelve didn’t.

Ezra McCarthy
How many? Four out of what?

Sam Gembel
Twelve. Twelve or thirteen. They were like, “You know what? We appreciate it, but just tell us what you need us to do and we’ll get it done.” And I realized, I needed them—but they don’t need to be pushed like I push myself.

And looking at it like that… I expect a lot from myself, so naturally, I expect a lot from the people that work for us. But maybe again, I was comparing my drive and goals to their drive and goals. And they’re like, “Dude, just tell us what needs to get done and we’ll do it.” And honestly, you need people like that.

I love these team members. Life is much better now. And I say all that to say—man, I’ve seen so much. We’ve made so many mistakes, and I’m so grateful for the journey. I’m grateful to be here doing this episode today.

It means a lot to me to be talking to another entrepreneur, and getting those messages that say, “Hey, because of what you shared, I never thought I’d be here.” That really fills my cup. It’s dual-purpose. I commit a day to a day-and-a-half each week to helping others, and that’s time my team can handle things on their own. They don’t need me hovering—they’ve got it.

It’s really a win-win. Helping others grow helps me grow. And in turn, it’s an extrinsic motivator. If I’m going to expect people I coach or mentor to grow, I have to pour into myself, too. It’s just part of the journey. Part of the growth.

Ezra McCarthy
So Sam, are those eight leaders still with your company? How long ago was that?

Sam Gembel
Yeah, that was… that probably goes back about three years. And yeah, they’re still here. Pretty much now, my direct reports are a couple of directors and our office manager—it’s pretty minimal now.

They’re all still with the company, but they just don’t want that level of accountability. There’s so much I could unpack with that, but I’ll just tell one quick, funny story.

So when we relaunched the meeting, we renamed it the GSD meeting—short for Get Stuff Done. That was separate from the original leadership meeting with the book studies and personal development.

The GSD meeting is what brought everyone back in. It’s very tactical: here’s what needs to be done, who’s owning what, let’s execute.

About six to eight months ago, I started three meeting types:

1. My mentorship group within the business.
2. Our monthly GSD meeting.
3. My direct report meeting.

Well, one of our guys—he’s not a direct report, he reports to one of our directors—comes to me and says, “We have a meeting?” I said, “Yeah, absolutely. What’s up?”

And he says, “How come I can’t report directly to you? I feel like I run a very intricate part of our business.”

And I said, “You do, man. I’m super thankful for everything you do every day. Don’t take it personal.”

He asked, “Then why not?”

And I told him, “Because I’m going to hold you to a different standard. If you’re going to report directly to me, these are going to be the expectations.”

And he thought about it, and then he said, “You know what? I’m good. I’m perfectly fine with the structure how it is.”

Sam Gembel
And it’s not that they’re not capable—it’s just that their level of influence is different. And everyone’s level of influence is different. These are all great people. A couple of them don’t work for us anymore, now that I think about it—but it’s been unrelated.

The truth is, we’ve worked really hard to eliminate the hiding spots in our business. I think that’s one of the reasons we went through those dark financial years. It wasn’t just that we weren’t tracking the numbers—that was part of it—but we were bloated. We were fat.

Because I believed that every single thing needed a manager. Everything had to have a title, a leader. Fast forward a bit—we brought in a consultant later on. I said, “Dude, pick it apart. Don’t hold back.” And he said, “I don’t mean this in a bad way, but you guys are fat.” I asked, “What do you mean by fat?” He goes, “You have a manager for everything.”

So we’ve really been working hard to lean out the organization and eliminate hiding spots. Now people know what’s expected of them every day. I don’t measure success by how often my phone rings. I measure it by how quiet it is—because that means people are owning their roles.

We’ve implemented a true cascading leadership model. I still see this in businesses I coach—everyone wants to put everybody on the same level. But no, man. A-players should be hanging with A-players. B-players should be reporting tothem.

Ezra McCarthy
This has been gold, Sam. If you’re going to sit down with a lawn or landscape company—say they’re stuck at $250K to $500K a year, just feeling maxed out—what’s one thing you’d tell them to focus on to help them get to the next level?

Sam Gembel
There are a lot of key things—but one of the most common issues I see at that $250K to $500K range is the owner is lacking a true second-in-command. They don’t have someone who can say, “Hey, Ezra—you focus on selling and growing the business. Just tell us what you need done, and we’ll do it.”

A lot of times, the owner struggles to trust people. They keep their hands in everything. That “nobody can do it like me” trap. That failure to delegate. That need for control. It’s a real limiter.

So if you’re stuck there, the first thing to realize is that as the business owner, you are only responsible for two key things:

1. Set the vision.
   Where’s this company going? What does it look like in 1 year, 3 years, 5 years? That’s yours to own. No one else can do that. It’s your business—your dream—your vision.
2. Set the tone for the culture.
   How are we going to get there? What’s the vibe in the shop? How do we treat people? If your culture feels toxic, or disjointed, or like a free-for-all—that’s feeding off of you. If you act like it’s every man for himself, your team will act the same way.

But here’s the thing—they don’t even need to believe in your vision. They just need to believe you believe in it. That’s it. If you’re confident and clear, they’ll rally behind you.

I had a conversation recently with one of our team members who’s been with me for 12–13 years. We were reminiscing about the early days, and she said, “I remember being at the ranch on a Friday night and watching the lawn crew pull in with beers between their legs—driving.” I asked her, “Why did you stay? I wasn’t a great boss. I was all over the place. What made you stick it out?”

She said something that hit me deep:

“I believed in you. I knew you’d eventually find out. And I knew you’d fix it.”

That meant a lot. Because those guys with the beers? They’re gone. They were just the best we had at the time.

Too many business owners wait for everything to be perfect before they grow. But here’s the truth:

80% of something done by someone else is 100% awesome.
Let it go. Let others help.

Set the vision. Set the tone. And if you can master those two things? Watch out. Big things are coming.

Ezra McCarthy
You kind of gave yourself away, Sam—you’re a Dan Martell fan.

Sam Gembel
I am a huge Dan Martell fan. Only because somebody bought me the book. I actually got the book after I did a keynote talk on time mastery—building the habits that give you back more time. I had never even heard of Dan Martell.

I finished the keynote, and a couple of people sent me a copy of Buy Back Your Time. And I’ve been obsessed with it ever since. It’s one of my top five best books I’ve ever read. I probably quote Dan Martell more than anyone now. I used to be all about John Maxwell for many, many years—but Dan is making a huge impact in the business community for sure.

Ezra McCarthy
That’s probably one of my favorite books too. I had my assistant read it. I’m a huge fan. You’ve given a lot of value here, Sam—honestly, I’m about ready to go back and listen to this episode again myself. So much value. If someone wants to find you—or maybe even get some coaching—where would they go? What’s the best way to connect?

Sam Gembel
Thanks, man. Yeah, it’s super easy—and it still sounds a little weird to say—but just go to my website: samgembel.com.

I’m also on Facebook and all the other social platforms. But yeah—it’s truly an honor to give back, to help people hopefully skip a few of the painful steps. I had a few people who helped pull me along the way, but honestly, I waited waytoo long to ask for help from people who were ahead of where I was.

Now it feels good to be able to give back. So yeah, I’d love to connect with anyone who’s ready to grow.

Ezra McCarthy
Well, that’s a wrap on this episode with Sam Gembel. If you’re serious about leveling up your lawn and landscape business, then you’re going to want to take a page right out of Sam’s playbook. Think bigger. Lead better. Build systems to scale. Be sure to check out Sam’s website—and we’ll catch you on the next episode.